here's a thought game -- a case for artificial beings (this is long... but worth it)

[Ivana]

I think this is a really cool thread, I like the idea and I've enjoyed reading the replies [img]smile.gif[/img]

Alex, can't you for once participate in a thread without disecting the english language or everything else in a thread for that matter?

[TastinGood]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Tempus Sans ITC, Tahoma">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#000000"><font size=2 face="Tempus Sans ITC, Tahoma">Originally posted by Ivana:
Alex, can't you for once participate in a thread without disecting the english language or everything else in a thread for that matter?</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

No.

[SHATOUSHKA]

you have no reply to this, jason?

[TastinGood]

I do have a response to this post, but I had not planned on posting it quite yet.

With my reduced HB posting, as of late, I have neglected several posts that I would have normally replied to.

Maybe someday soon I will be back in all of my former glory.

As for this post...

You and I once talked of prison life once. It was agreed upon that after a(n) (sometimes minimal) amount of time, one grows accustomed to the change and the space that they now occupy.
Their world rapidly adapts to accept the changes that have been placed upon then, and while frightening at first, the initial shock lessons and that culture becomes more and more ingrained into the person.


>>how do you react to your owners?
They allow me to live. How am I to know that I am treated poorly when I have never known anyone else? A positive reaction would most likely be the case.

>>how do you react to the 'others'?
Strange other beings that offer no support in my situation. I am limited as to what I can learn from them. I would have an indifferent opinion to them, as my reaction would reflect.
However, you would have to wonder why they are not like yourself. The term 'free' may not be realized by the one in the cage, but you would know that they were different.

>>how do you feel about yourself?
nothing different than what i think now. for me to be in the cage for so long and have limited knowledge would be no different than for any one of us to live in our current day to day lives. For there will always be a wealth of knowledge and information that none of us will ever comprehend. So IMO, it's all relative.

>>how do you view your first 20 years?
It's gone now. The past cannot be changed.

>>how do you feel about the rest of your life?
I believe it would depend on the situation. Would you still associate with your owners? Any of the others?
No matter what, culture shock would take place. You would long for the cage and wish to return. It would be a struggle, but perhaps over time it would become easier.

>>how do you treat new 'others'?
Curiosity would reign at first. Followed by resentment over time after learning and understanding the difference between how they were raised.

>>what is the first thing you'd do when released?
walk along and stare in awe at all of the things that the world has in it (both natural and man-made) that you could never have comprehended just a short time ago.

>>how do you view this experiment?
while maybe not done in this exact context, i believe many are born into a world of captivity...limited to what they see/feel/know/comprehend. It may be on a different level...but its really much the same.

>>what would you suggest to be done differently?
Slowly integrate the 'caged' one into the world a few steps at a time. starting even perhaps several years before the actual 7300th day.

Or never let him know anything other than the cage itself.

>>how do you view the 'one in the cage'?
With pity after knowing one type of 'reality' for so long and then getting the rugged pulled out from under him/her.

>>how do you view the owners/others?
With no information regarding the motives behind the cage/box...I dont have much of an opinion on the owners.

<font color="#ac0000" size="1">[ March 14, 2003 06:48 PM: Message edited by: TastinGood ]</font>

[Hannibal]

After threats from someone who will remain nameless.. we'll call him Tastin G. No, no, that's too obvious... T. Good.... I have decided to answer this post in a more thought out, and progressive answer.
as the one in the cage:


how do you react to your owners? They are the only people you've had any sort of interaction with, they are your world outside they cage. *even though torture in this case isn't actually torture to you* The reason what they did to you wouldn't be torture is because, when put into a solitary life *in a cage* the mind eventually begins to hallucinate do to the fact that everything is the same. The mind thrives on change and difference. So, if the time aloted before you heard voices, saw anyone, or was let out of teh cage was long enough, you'd go insane, or die actually.
So... this cage thing isn't actually as feesible as it may sound, but we'll assume for experiments sake, this person didn't go insane or die.
In which case, i would assert they would feel nothing toward their owners. They would mearly be people like himself, who were outside of the cage.
how do you react to the 'others'?
I would react with interest, at how there were so many, but I never knew it from being in my cage... I would just wonder about the numbers I think.
how do you feel about yourself?
I would feel like I was me, and they were them. For all I know, they too, are simply on walks outside of their cage.
how do you view your first 20 years?
As life.
how do you feel about the rest of your life?
As life.
how do you treat new 'others'?
With the same respect as my owners.
what is the first thing you'd do when released?
Wonder what was going on...


as a normal poster:


how do you view this experiment?
Quite honestly, not feesible.
what would you suggest to be done differently?
There would have to be more interaction, or something more in the cage. There would have to be more "difference" to keep the one in the cage moving away from insanity, and close enough to the realm of reality for us to watch the experiment.
how do you view the 'one in the cage'?
As a test.
how do you view the owners/others?
As the testers.

[SHATOUSHKA]

thanks for posting, hanny

[Alex]

Ivana, I don't know if it's a language barrier thing, but you seem to always ask me a question that is just an accusation in disguise.

And not disguised very well.

There's nothing wrong with my original response, I simply pointed out that the topic reminded me of something parallel.

If you recall, others on this topic thread have stated that they did not want to answer all the questions. I felt the same way and I responded based on that.

Why not direct your somewhat negative comment to them also?

I was curious to see if Shatzy saw any parallels between her initial topic post and childhood upbring. Shatzy's has posted in the past using a riddle motiff, I viewed this topic as a possible riddle, so I guessed an answer.

[Hannibal]

Alex... no riddle, just questions...
no semantics, just questions...
come now, Get with the program, and for once, pay attention to someone other than Shatzy..
If you look close enough, you can find flaws in anything/anyone.
Stop searching, and try to see the forest, instead of examining each particular tree.

[SHATOUSHKA]

clever alex.

there were 2 people i made this thread for,
you being one of them.

'riddle motiff'??? isn't that what is normally
called a 'metaphor' or 'metaphorical'???

speaking of language barriers *rolls eyes*

and besides, you wanna ruffle up ivana, you gonna
hafta go through me.
there were no misconceptions about her post.
she asked you a question... and instead, like
usual, you turn it into a worldly unjustice done
to you... or at least you are attempting to
'stealthly uncover one'....

you have issues. she wanted to know.
she asked a Q. you refrained from answering....

no surprise here. [img]graemlins/thumbs_down.gif[/img]

[Alex]

First there was this...


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Tempus Sans ITC, Tahoma">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#000000"><font size=2 face="Tempus Sans ITC, Tahoma">Originally posted by HannyGood:
I'm afraid I can't answer this.
Because, like usual, there are variables that simply aren't accounted for in this small of time frame, and... I don't see what this has to do with artificial intelligence.
but... errrm.... I guess I think too much like a psychologist for this [img]biggrin.gif[/img] </font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

then there was this...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Tempus Sans ITC, Tahoma">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#000000"><font size=2 face="Tempus Sans ITC, Tahoma">Originally posted by ?Gary?:
I don't feel like answering 20 questions, so I'm just gonna give one broad answer.

</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

and then, Ivan said this...


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Tempus Sans ITC, Tahoma">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#000000"><font size=2 face="Tempus Sans ITC, Tahoma">Originally posted by Ivana:
I think this is a really cool thread, I like the idea and I've enjoyed reading the replies [img]smile.gif[/img]

Alex, can't you for once participate in a thread without disecting the english language or everything else in a thread for that matter?</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was the third person in this topic to give an answer based not exactly on what Shatzy was asking, yet I am singled out.

And yet, all I did was simply point out an analogy to childrearing.